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ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips

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Dated:
May 5th, 2012
By:
Aaron Been
Game:
SNG/MTT
Stake:
High Stakes
Teaching Method:
Concept Video
Language:
English
Type:
Full Ring
2125 Views
7 Comments
9.7510
(4 Ratings) 9.75

Aaron begins his in-depth ICM series discussing why ICM is important, how it is affected by the payout structure, and more.

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Comments

  • AaronBeen AaronBeen Bluefire Pro Poker Newbie
    52 Posts
    ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    5 May 2012 at 1:53pm
    Discussion for ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips.
  • AaronPope AaronPope Poker Trainee
    252 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    5 May 2012 at 8:26pm
    This was a helpful video to lay out ICM concepts and I look forward to the others. Just in time for the series IMO :D
  • rextar rextar Poker Newbie
    51 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    5 May 2012 at 8:52pm
    thx looking forward to all this, hh reviews are great too but I was definitely hoping for more theory and fundamentals from the MTT coaches
  • Jimbozgrapes Jimbozgrapes Poker Prodigy
    339 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    7 May 2012 at 2:40am
    I like that you added the end part, when i first learned about ICM i was folding a lot more then what I should have been. Its super important to play good poker and make +ev decissions, even if its for your tournament life. I think ICM is most important for bubble play, and for short stack push/fold/call ranges depending on the stage of the tournament, and the final tables. Otherwise, its probably best just to ignore it and play normal poker. Also, there was a SNG building block series that was really good. The diminishing chip values was really well explained by talking about a 9 person tournament, where 1 player stacks one other player every hand, and how his equity goes up by less and less for each player he stacks. because the remaining players all gain more and more equity as they approach the money.. Anyways, looking forward to the more advanced concepts on ICM in MTT play.
  • BuildingTowers BuildingTowers Poker Newbie
    25 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    7 May 2012 at 7:33am
    Hi Been. First off - Great video. I play both mtts and mttSnGs on stars. My question is mostly based on the 180ies 3rebuy (since the stack sizes is somewhat deeper than in the 8/15 freeze version of the 180ies) you argumented that if the speed of the tourney is somewhat fast it would be like if there is many/some short stacks and passing up small edges might be your best choice. Stacks are useally in the area of 7-25bb nearing the ft and i beleive that taking some small edges taking your stack from 10ish to 22 bb is hugely profitable, mainly due to restealing and there by immobalizing aggresive players to your right adding up perhaps 25% more steal spots + you are harder to atc shove on etc. Im not sure if I explained it optimal - but I hope you catch my drift. Is ICM consideration really that important if you add in the extra edge to be gained from being the bully and perhaps making not that good ICM decisions. Lastly I will add that the payout struckture and the level struckture of 180ies is quite different from regular tournaments and favors the 1st prize a whole lot.
  • AaronBeen AaronBeen Bluefire Pro Poker Newbie
    52 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    9 May 2012 at 4:31pm

    I don't really play those games but if first place pays a lot and players are susceptible to bullying then playing loose is probably a good idea.

    I think it's easy to overestimate the advantages of a particular stack size. What really matters is effective stack size (the size of the smallest stack in the hand) and position. When effective stack size increases the button and cutoff get to play more hands and the blinds and early position players have to fold more because the advantage of position increases with stack size. When effective stack size decreases the opposite happens. You always want to be as short-stacked as possible in the blinds (except BB vs SB) because it's harder to steal your blind and you have to make fewer decisions out of position.

    So basically whether you want to be at 10bbs or 22bbs (aside from always wanting more chips) depends on the stack size and play style of the players sitting next to you.

  • nancyloum nancyloum Poker Newbie
    1 Posts
    Re: ICM: The Changing Value of Tournament Chips
    22 Jun 2012 at 8:01pm
    Very helpful, good overview of general ICM concepts. A little basic, but I'm sure it's all just laying the groundwork for later videos. Thanks!

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