Coleman at 400NL HU

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Dated:
Sep 7th, 2011
By:
Coleman Whitsitt
Game:
NLHE
Stake:
Mid Stakes
Teaching Method:
Session Video 1 - 2 Table
Language:
English
Type:
Heads Up
2802 Views
16 Comments
8.4010
(5 Ratings) 8.40

Coleman reviews a recent session of $2/$4 HU NL.

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Comments

  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 1:21am
    Discussion for Coleman at 400NL HU.
  • SoonToBeBum SoonToBeBum Poker Newbie
    13 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 3:15am
    Hey, I got some constructive feedback for you. First off, it seems like you try a little too hard to sound like the "stereotype poker vid instructor" which is completely unneccesary, just do your own thing and don't try to mimic others. Of course this is just a feeling I'm getting when listening to you and not facts at all. I really think this segment of the match was uninteresting seeing as you in fact godmoded him and you hardly got into any postflop situations. The few you did get yourself into I think you played quite poorly and put yourself in marginal spots. You mentioned in the end that there was a few hours earlier of breakeven struggling play, I would MUCH rather have seen that segment of the match than this. I understand its very tempting to pick the most action packed segment of a long recording but it's not neccesarily the best one to analyse as a teaching concept. You did a great job of adjusting to your image with the dynamics and explaining about it. Try to slow things down a little in your future videos, go in depth in more situations instead of purely "commentating" whats happening.
  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 9:34am

    Hey, thanks for the feedback. Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean when you say I try to sound like other instructors. I definitely don't have any other videos or instructors in mind when I'm producing my video.

    Unfortunately the lack of postflop situations is somewhat a result of the villain's playing style. His inability to give up in so many situations forced me to show up with hands on later streets much more often than I would usually prefer.

    I understand the criticism that it seems I godmoded him during this segment, but you have to understand if I am getting paid in spots where I'm never bluffing (b/c of his tendencies or game flow) then I am forcing my opponent to make mistakes.

    Which hands did I play quite poorly?

    I agree, I would have rather made a video of the breakeven portion of the session but this is the part where I actually started recording. I didn't bring up Camtasia until about 2 minutes before the video starts.

  • SoonToBeBum SoonToBeBum Poker Newbie
    13 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 10:24am
    The godmode part wasnt really criticism, nothing you can do about that obviously and its always gonna be a good thing. :) I cba to watch the video again, take notes and pinpoint the hands i thought sounded a bit weird but there were a few, nothing major though. One quote i recall is when you 3bet KJo (cant remember stack depth) and snapcheck snapfold on 752 board with the reasoning "This is just one of those boards it feels its impossible to win if you miss". (Not sure this was the exact quote for something similar.) Thats one of them. I understand you cant cb that flop every time of course but the specific reasoning wasnt very good in my opinion. Also with KK at 42:40, why do you think betcalling turn is bad/light? I think its one of the best cards for you to barrel because people generally like to herocall wider on such turns they expect you to slow down on. Keep it up though, i enjoyed the video overall and my initial comment mightve sounded a bit hateful even though I can assure you it was not at all. :) (How do you get spaces in your texts?)
  • WeLostAlpha WeLostAlpha Poker Newbie
    24 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 11:04am
    2 tabling matches with audio added after playing are not the best. I actually hate them. why would you take a note on 5b jamming A9s early? You note super standard plays? - 9:30 minutes you in give a big speech on how this guy is never folding and going to call down 3 streets with 2nd and bottom pairs, then go bluff A9 to get him off 4x? Umm, what? Oh god, you actually 3bet that river? Someone who is going to call down 3 streets with bottom pair, you think will fold 2 pair in NLHE? Turned the video off right there. You are making plays completely contradictory to the reads you just spent quite a few minutes going over. Awesome.
  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 12:37pm

    SoonToBeBum wrote:

    The godmode part wasnt really criticism, nothing you can do about that obviously and its always gonna be a good thing. :) I cba to watch the video again, take notes and pinpoint the hands i thought sounded a bit weird but there were a few, nothing major though. One quote i recall is when you 3bet KJo (cant remember stack depth) and snapcheck snapfold on 752 board with the reasoning "This is just one of those boards it feels its impossible to win if you miss". (Not sure this was the exact quote for something similar.) Thats one of them. I understand you cant cb that flop every time of course but the specific reasoning wasnt very good in my opinion. Also with KK at 42:40, why do you think betcalling turn is bad/light? I think its one of the best cards for you to barrel because people generally like to herocall wider on such turns they expect you to slow down on. Keep it up though, i enjoyed the video overall and my initial comment mightve sounded a bit hateful even though I can assure you it was not at all. :) (How do you get spaces in your texts?)

    Yeah, let me know which hands you thought were misplayed.

    The KJ hand, I don't mean that it's a bad flop to cbet against normal opponents - just that I'm not comfortable cbetting against this opponent because I can't seem to get him to fold anything.

    The KK hand, the problem I have with bet/calling is I don't know what worse hands he jams.  I think worse hands can call, but if I bet/call it's very possible I'm up against Tx a large % of the time.  I'm not sure if I agree this is a turn call people will hero call light.  Most players realize it's not a great bluff card and don't expect me to be bluffing here a ton.  That's just my opinion though.

    To get spaces in the text you have to find the video in the forums and post there.

  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 1:01pm

    2 tabling matches with audio added after playing are not the best. I actually hate them.

    Thank you.  What is the best type of video?

    why would you take a note on 5b jamming A9s early?

    I'd say >50% of 2/4 regs that I sit with each day don't 5b jam A9s.  There are tons of nits out there man.

    You note super standard plays?

    No, I note plays that can sometimes give a general idea of what kind of player my opponent is.  If I'm 4 tabling another reg at the same time, it can be useful to look over at this opponent and see he is capable of getting it in at least semi-wide.  Noting he 5b jams A9s is pretty different than noting someone 5b jams AKs.

    9:30 minutes you in give a big speech on how this guy is never folding and going to call down 3 streets with 2nd and bottom pairs, then go bluff A9 to get him off 4x? Umm, what? Oh god, you actually 3bet that river? Someone who is going to call down 3 streets with bottom pair, you think will fold 2 pair in NLHE?

    Is this guy more likely to call in this spot than most?  Yes.  Does that make the bluff bad? Not necessarily.  The idea is that this player isn't going to want to fold in places where it's very easy for me to have a wide air range.  So I may not bluff him in normal bluffing spots where he thinks my air range is at all wide. But sometimes spots come up where bluffing is super unconventional and it's going to be extremely difficult for him to put me on a bluff.  This is the most likely spot for him to make hero folds.  Also, his range isn't exclusively 2 pair here so I don't have to force only two pair to fold.  This also happens to be the kind of spot that will make a lasting impression on how he views me in the future.

    Turned the video off right there.

    That's unfortunate, because you missed how poorly he responds to this play and how profitable it was for me in future hands.

    You are making plays completely contradictory to the reads you just spent quite a few minutes going over.

    If I never bluff, at some point I will never get called.  I'd rather force him to stay paranoid.

  • WeLostAlpha WeLostAlpha Poker Newbie
    24 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 2:55pm

    So either 2 tables live or a 4 tabling match if you are going to do post. If you can't play well while commenting in real time, then record audio after wards but do not pause the video. If something isn't explain well enough go over it in the comments section (its a big plus you do this. unlike say Phil Galfond, quanity over quality and he doesn't even respond to the comments in his videos). I never not watch a video if it doesn't get paused. I tilt turn off videos frequently if someone pauses the action and goes in depth about something that is standard for the audience he is making the video for.

     

    I'd say >50% of 2/4 regs that I sit with each day don't 5b jam A9s.  There are tons of nits out there man.


    When you say sit with, you mean ppl who play you for an extended length of time? 

     

    Also, his range isn't exclusively 2 pair here so I don't have to force only two pair to fold.

    What is his value raising range on the river? From what i heard in the video you were putting him on 83/84/T8 and hoping he'd fold to a shove.

    If I never bluff, at some point I will never get called. 

    Not necessairly.

     

    Sorry for the triple post, forum was hard to figure out.

  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    8 Sep 2011 at 3:20pm

    Unfortunately for you, most of the feedback I have gotten from other viewers is they prefer the video reviews where action is paused and plays are explained more in-depth.  Obviously I'm not as good as Phil, but that doesn't mean I have less to say or that my explanations are any shorter.  Also, it's much more difficult to get live sessions at Heads Up since opponents usually quit in the first 15 minutes and it can get frustrating to be recording audio every time and then it goes to waste because the session isn't long enough.  I do still plan on doing some live videos though.

    When you say sit with, you mean ppl who play you for an extended length of time?

    Yes.

    What is his value raising range on the river? From what i heard in the video you were putting him on 83/84/T8 and hoping he'd fold to a shove.

    These are the combos of hands that are possible that he may end up hero-calling with.  That doesn't mean he can't be bluffing here or that he can't raise a Ten and fold.  The point is those are the top of his range and he has a really really tough call with those hands.

    Not necessairly.

    This was a reg at 2/4 who had previously attempted to adjust to my different frequencies.  If I turned into a nit, he would stop calling.

    Sorry for the triple post, forum was hard to figure out.

    No worries, I had trouble with it too.

  • SKYlukas SKYlukas Poker Newbie
    1 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    9 Sep 2011 at 7:04am

    Hey,

    I liked the video overall and enjoyed your past videos very much too. Just a few comments:

    I totally agree with SoonToBeBum on the fact that the part where you don't hit a hand and struggle would be way way way more useful for us knobz:) but you already clarified that part.

    Also - almost everything to the point of the KK hand I could agree with but checking turn there and later raising J8 in 3bet pot on J high board made my head hurt so much and made me kinda sad. You said something in the lines of "he's on the point of doing something stupid/spewy", so were you calling if he like jams that flop for 300~bb?

    All in all again - I like your videos. Will definitely watch future ones.

  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    9 Sep 2011 at 10:20am

    Thanks Skylukas. Yeah considering his ability to spew I think the KK line ended up being relatively weak. It's hard to find hands I will get value from, but he may surprise me and call with any pair.

    It's pretty hard to have a plan in the J8 hand. I do know that he can't expect me to raise pretty much anything for value there which means I have a huge air range. So if he actually has a hand, he should call the flop and try to pick off bluffs. I'm not trying to play for stacks in this situation, I just think I look so bluffy when I raise here that he will float the flop super wide or maybe even 3bet bluff.

  • yummygummy yummygummy Poker Trainee
    41 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    9 Sep 2011 at 2:25pm

    Very nice Coleman, progressively from your first video which I though was decent I've like your videos more and more. It seems to me your getting better and better with each video. Thank your for playing deep stacked, although I would have liked to hear more nuances for deep stacked play, but obviously you had tons of action going on and couldn't really comment. 

    I also like you playing a aggressive opponent who barrels alot, I think these guys are really tough for alot of players, but you picked him apart. The 3bet bluff on the river with a9 was sick and you described perfectly why it was hard for him to have value hands in that spot. What a lolbad call by him btw.

     

    Reading the first 2 comments I couldn't help but think you guys sound like tweedle d and tweedle dumb. Instead of enforcing your own beliefs you should be open to the fact that coleman is better than you, and you can learn a ton from him. And lol at him sounding like a typical instructer.

    I've had subscribtions at cardrunners, lego poker and besised aejones, coleman kills anybody on there. Too the guy who said the a9 bluff was contridictory to his reads, watch the video again and hear coleman say it's hard for him to have 2 pair in that spot.

  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    9 Sep 2011 at 11:56pm

    Thanks for the kind comments yummygummy. 

    Yeah, I had high hopes for some good deep stack play but the spots really just never came up.  I'll definitely be looking to get that into a video soon.

  • SoonToBeBum SoonToBeBum Poker Newbie
    13 Posts
    Re: Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    11 Sep 2011 at 5:12am

    yummygummy wrote:

     

    Reading the first 2 comments I couldn't help but think you guys sound like tweedle d and tweedle dumb. Instead of enforcing your own beliefs you should be open to the fact that coleman is better than you, and you can learn a ton from him.

    I doubt this, especially since its written without facts and purely a guess. The reason I take the time to comment on videos is to both help the author telling him what the audience, me, want to see in the future. Especially when its a new video coach, I know if I was doing videos I'd be dying to know what everyone thought and what I could improve in the future. An important part of this line of profession is to be able to withstand a few punches for a greater good end product and not take them personally.

    And I doubt Coleman is so fantasticly good at poker that none of us in the comment section can benefit his game by discussing hands.

  • DaSpirit DaSpirit Poker Newbie
    1 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    11 Sep 2011 at 7:04am
    Hi there! I am shocked that you triple barreled the hand at 27:20, right table. The moment you bet that river and stared to explain that he may fold an Ace in that spot I was just laughing. Sorry for the criticism, but can you explain why do you expect this guy in the current table dynamics to ever fold an ace in that spot? Other than that its a nice video, but I think that you should be more critical of your decisions and should not try to explain everything, but go deeper in hands.
  • ColemanWhitsitt ColemanWhitsitt Bluefire Pro Poker Trainee
    137 Posts
    Re: Coleman at 400NL HU
    11 Sep 2011 at 10:19am

    I don't mind the criticism at all DaSpirit.  But, if you listen to what I was saying I was actually leaning towards how I didn't really expect him to fold an Ace.  I was just explaining how my range was pretty strong so he's going to have to fold non-ace hands and at least have to consider folding Ax.  He's 3betting AT+ and lots of suited Ax hands so it's not likely his range is really weighted towards Ax hands.  He will be playing 9x this way and folding the river with it every time.  Either way, I think if it's a +EV bluff it's not by much.

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