Top pair mid kicker, 3 ways pot » Small Stakes No Limit Discussion

  • Willdonkeyy Willdonkeyy Poker Newbie
    8 Posts
    Top pair mid kicker, 3 ways pot
    4 Feb 2010 at 11:51pm

    1st villain is a short stack - 59/15 out of 112 hands. - not worried about this villain so much

    2nd villain 29/6 Out of 109 hands
    AF - 67% 6.2 - Flop 68% Turn 73% River 60%

    I haven't play much pot with 2nd villain so much, therefore I do not have much knowledge about villain playing style.

    After the hand, I reviewed his stats, it turns out that he is playing semi loose, very passive preflop but very aggressive post flop.

    I couldn't really put villain on a proper hand.

    $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players

    BB: $50.90 (101.8 bb)
    UTG: $17.15 (34.3 bb)
    MP: $50 (100 bb)
    Hero (CO): $60.10 (120.2 bb)
    BTN: $52.65 (105.3 bb)
    SB: $191.50 (383 bb)

    Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with T A
    UTG raises to $1.75, MP folds, Hero calls $1.75, 2 folds, BB calls $1.25

    Flop: ($5.50) J A 3 (3 players)
    BB checks, UTG bets $5.50, Hero calls $5.50, BB raises to $15, UTG raises to $15.40 and is all-in, Hero calls $9.90, BB calls $0.40

    Turn: ($51.70) 3 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
    BB bets $10

    Results: $51.70 pot
    Final Board: J A 3 3

    Preflop - Standard call against loose passive fish

    FLop - I called the c-bet believeing my hand is best and trying to induce more bluff from short stack villain.

    Unexpected raise by villain 2.

    Villain raising range:
    AA,JJ --> unlikely, because I expect him to raise preflop.
    AJ, J3, 33, A3

    Probably I made a bad call on the flop. I made the call because its a dry board and I thought it will be to tight for me to fold in situation like this.

    I know that under normal circumstances I do not beat that many hands, I only beat lower Ax and Pair J.

    However Villain 1 is very loose, station, and a short stack, I thought that Villain 2 could raise with most Ax here because of villain tendencies to just call any bet with any pair or random gut shot.

    Turn - On the turn, I don't put villain on AQ, AK because of no 3 bet preflop v station short stack fish.

    Villain bet $10 into $50 pot:
    - He may be value betting me with a really good hand, so that he could get the right amount to shove on the river.

    - He is defensive betting with small Ax or worse.

    Questions:
    1. Looking at villain #2. He tends to play very passively preflop. Is it possible to put him on AK? Maybe AQ AJ is morel likely? Even though there is no 3 bet preflop with fish open UTG and a caller.

    2. What do you think is the best play? Call ? Do I call river bet? If he bet teh river i think it is more likely to be a shove.

    FOld??

    Is Raising even an option here???

     

  • IrwinFletcher IrwinFletcher Poker Newbie
    383 Posts
    Re: Top pair mid kicker, 3 ways pot
    5 Feb 2010 at 5:43pm

    "1st villain is a short stack - 59/15 out of 112 hands. - not worried about this villain so much"

    The above statement is the biggest mistake in the hand in my opinion.  I think that I would approach this hand differently in several locations.  The first spot being the preflop call.   The under the gun player is a loose passive short stack who is raising only 15% of his hands.  This range may be even tighter in first position.  ATo is not going to play well against this range.  I would fold preflop.  I would also argue that if you think you are ahead that you should 3-bet against a player with a 30bb stack.  

    If I wasn't paying any attention and made it to the flop.  I would probably fold when the passive player makes a pot size continuation bet.  There are no hands in the villain's (#1) preflop raising range that make a continuation bet on this board that you are ahead of.  If by chance I decided that there was too much in the pot already to fold my top pair, I would certainly muck when the player in the blinds decides to raise into 2 players with likely near zero fold equity.  

  • DanishDonk DanishDonk Poker Newbie
    236 Posts
    Re: Top pair mid kicker, 3 ways pot
    5 Feb 2010 at 6:14pm

    I agree completely with Irwin.

    But I understand why you want to play AT versus the loose player though, so I think seing a flop is actually fine considering how impatient the player is.