Forum posts to 'Small Stakes No Limit Discussion'

Re: turn the nuts and facing river shove

OmerAsik — Thu, 16 May 2013 11:01:01 -0500

X is correct, reads on the players involved matter most. But w/o knowing anything about the villain and reading purely from betting what would you do X?

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Re: turn the nuts and facing river shove

Xcalibur — Thu, 16 May 2013 07:11:22 -0500

Reads on players effect every decision in this hand, whether the call pre is good or is it better to 3bet or fold, whether the flop can be bluff raised, whether we raise/shove or call the turn. We could play this many different ways so there is no definitive answer without reads.

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Re: turn the nuts and facing river shove

OmerAsik — Wed, 15 May 2013 15:34:58 -0500

He has bet since the beginning so I think this is a pretty easy call. If he backdoor flushed re-load - you will be right with your straight far often enough to outweigh the occasional backdoor fisting.

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Re: Trying to multi table.

OmerAsik — Mon, 13 May 2013 12:48:42 -0500

Whomever made the point above about the psychological impact of multiple tables and the games seeming to be aggressive is dead on. I tried 4-6 tabling 50NL 6max for two months. When the cards came I was +10 buy ins. When they didn't and I became spewy trying to combat "all of the aggression" I was -10 buy ins. I found myself three betting solid regulars w/low raise percentages regularly.
Now I run just two tables and win at a ~6BB/hr rate. I take meticulous notes and play off of what I've seen out of the players. If you really want to test your mental fortitude sign up for Bovada and practice there. If you can train your brain to do this on a session by session basis (you have to because there are no user names, only randomly assigned No's when a player sits) you will crush the game when youre at a site where names are assigned and you can store notes on individuals....

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Re: cg training group

JenniferGirl — Sun, 14 Apr 2013 14:55:30 -0500

texas holdem cashgame fr and sh

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Re: cg training group

Jimbozgrapes — Thu, 11 Apr 2013 23:22:45 -0500

What games do you play? NLHE cash/omaha/mtts/sngs?

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cg training group

JenniferGirl — Wed, 10 Apr 2013 02:47:31 -0500

Hello, I watched a lot of good videos at the site, now I'm looking for other winning pros like me to train together with, like analizing each others sessions, videos, hands, ideas etc on msn, skype, facebook, etc. Write to me if someone is interested. (I'm a man despite my accname JenniferGirl.)

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Re: Re: NL50 67s

EZGAME — Tue, 26 Mar 2013 15:33:18 -0500

This was my thought as well

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Re: NL50 67s

JPZdancewicz — Tue, 19 Mar 2013 19:32:03 -0500

Would rather squeeze preflop with this exact hand.
I like chk/call on the flop, but could potentially see c/r'ing having some merit. Also, leading the flop could work depending on how likely they are to bluff raise flops and how thinly you can lead for value into 2 players.
As a flop c/r this is absolutely a card you have to bet. After checking I'd fold.

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Re: NL50 67s

Deeboy — Mon, 18 Mar 2013 06:57:59 -0500

You have like 25%, odds u get is  around 33%, i think. So math wise fold, but i can understand thats hard, agree with the play possibilities john recommended. Next time better, gl!

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Re: NL50 67s

johnklug6 — Fri, 15 Mar 2013 16:46:53 -0500

fold pre flop, raise pre flop, make a blocker bet on the turn or jusr give up on the turn. all reasonable options. you could also lead the turn but check raising is probably the worst. one he puts that much in even if he is weak he might make a  crying call

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NL50 67s

jamlongjames — Thu, 14 Mar 2013 13:03:48 -0500

<div class="hhdisplay">
<h1>$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Holdem • 4 Players • 888</h1>
<h2>Converted by <a href="http://www.bluefirepoker.com">Bluefire Poker</a> - Hand history Converter</h2>
<table class="t1" border="0" cellspacing="4" cellpadding="2">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td>me (SB)</td>
<td>50.25</td>
<td>�</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>BB</td>
<td>53.55</td>
<td>�</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>CO</td>
<td>63.79</td>
<td>�</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>BTN</td>
<td>31.31</td>
<td>�</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<h3>Effective Stacks: 63bb</h3>
Pre-Flop (0.75, 4 players)
Hero is SB
<img title="d7" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/d7.gif" alt="d7" width="42" height="55" /><img title="d6" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/d6.gif" alt="d6" width="42" height="55" />
CO raises to 1.50, BTN calls 1.50, me calls 1.25, 1 fold
Flop (5.00, 3 players)
<img title="dA" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/dA.gif" alt="dA" width="42" height="55" /><img title="d9" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/d9.gif" alt="d9" width="42" height="55" /><img title="cT" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/cT.gif" alt="cT" width="42" height="55" />
me checks, CO bets 3.00, BTN folds, me raises to 9.00, CO calls 6.00
<table style="width: 100%;" border="0">
</table>
Turn (23.00, 2 players)
<img title="hK" src="http://weaktight.com/img/d5/hK.gif" alt="hK" width="42" height="55" />
me checks, CO bets 14.50, me goes all-in 39.75, CO calls 25.25
<table style="width: 100%;" border="0">
</table>
Final Pot: 102.50
How to play this hand correctly?
Opponent: 26/17 flop cbet:64 Tcbet:54 Fold cbet to raise 54% Hands:5k
P.S Why I�decide to raise on turn I really don't know.
<table style="width: 100%;" border="0">
</table>
</div>

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Re: Re: Thoughts on my play

gp00065 — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 10:20:32 -0600

LoL. No problem, I got confused myself writing it.  Once again thanks for posting a response. Posting is one of the ways we all get better
Gp

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Re: Thoughts on my play

Xcalibur — Tue, 05 Mar 2013 05:20:34 -0600

Sorry I've misread your post and got villains the wrong way round. If the 3bettor was the lagtard then your 4bet call is fine IMO.

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Re: Thoughts on my play

gp00065 — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 13:44:40 -0600

I'm not exactly sure on what facts you're basing your logic on as to BB 3 betting rangel  I have no 3bet stats or fold to 3bet stats on BB.  What I have is 3 notes of him 3betting pre flop and either shoving or calling a shove with Face Card/ X, unsuited. Losing and rebuying back in a couple of hands later. 
I'm not sure what logic you used to come up with a value heavy 3 bettors range.  From a weak calling station who 3bet 3 times with "face card /x," one of the times he 3bet was with  K4o.  I also said he is a weak calling station, not passive. My logic was to try and get as much money in the pot with either him or BU or both.  I would have 4bet shoved if I thought he would have called, As well there is $51.75 already in the pot with only $26.50  for me to call. I think that math says I should call.
The BU was just as bad, but I did have a small hand sample on him. But both were Weak Fit Fold on the Flop. Again I'm not sure how you determined your 99.9% value range from information available.  Maybe we have different definitions of value ranges for weak players.
If you are making a case for folding, or calling that's fine, it would help us all a lot more by just use the information that's available.  But thanks for the imput.
Gp

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Re: Thoughts on my play

Xcalibur — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 07:26:58 -0600

So BB is a passive station and I assume from that doesn't have a wide 3betting range. If he's 3 betting <3% then outright folding is fine. Otherwise I don't really understand your logic, you 4bet a hand that plays badly against a value heavy 3 bettors range so you can fold out the person you should be looking to keep in the pot - even after that I'd still fold when he jams as his range is 99.9% likely to be QQ+, AKo, AKs only so your crushed.

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Re: Thoughts on my play

NeilGewirtz — Mon, 04 Mar 2013 01:01:06 -0600

Villian  is a fish I have 250 hands on him, He is a 40bb short stacker.  3bet 11% F3B 0, he has played NL200, NL100 3 tables at once never mixes buyins VPIP 62, PFR 38, AF .05 WTSD 33%, W$SD 28%

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Thoughts on my play

gp00065 — Sun, 03 Mar 2013 14:16:54 -0600

I have increased the amount of tables I’m playing and dropped down to NL50 to see how it goes.  I wanted to get some thoughts on this hand. The weak players at the table were BB and BU.  
My plan was simply to raise and either take down the pot pre flop or see a flop and take another look.    I wasn’t surprised when BU called he’s a weak LPAS calling station, but is fit fold on the flop,  when BB 3bet,  I still wasn’t all that concerned,  since sitting at the table he had 3bet 3 times with Face Card/x off suit, got stacked and bought hack in 2 hands later,.  Since the BU was still to act, I thought given my options, I could either call BB’s 3bet, or 4bet him.  I wasn’t folding against either of these 2 without seeing a flop.  I decided it would be better to  4bet to try and get button to fold as I thought my chances with BB were better heads up.  Once BU folded  and he shoved my only option was to call.   But when I reviewed I thought maybe I should have folded to his 3bet.  Long term they are both weak and there would be lots of chances to get their chips. Anyway what do think
 Villian  is a fish I have 250 hands on him, He is a 40bb short stacker.  3bet 11% F3B 0, he has played NL200, NL100 3 tables at once never mixes buyins VPIP 62, PFR 38, AF .05 WTSD 33%, W$SD 28%
 BB is a Weak calling station fit fold on the flop
$0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players –
Hero (CO): $50.00
BTN: $23.18
SB: $58.39
BB: $38.50
UTG: $57.10
MP: $50.00
 Pre Flop:($0.75) Hero is CO with A :spade: Q :diamond:
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, BTN calls $1.50, BB raises to $4.50, Hero raises to $12 BB BB raises to $38.50 all in, Hero calls $26.50
Flop:($78.75) 2 :club: T :diamond: 2 :diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)
Turn:($78.75) 8 :diamond: (2 players - 1 is all in)
River:($78.75) 8 :spade:2 players - 1 is all in)
 SHOW DOWN
BB shows [Kh Kc] (two pair, Kings and Eights)
Hero shows [As Qd] (two pair, Eights and Deuces)
BB  collected $76.25 from pot
SUMMARY
Total pot $78.75 | Rake $2.50
Board [2c Td 2d 8d 8s]
Seat 1: Hero showed [As Qd] and lost with two pair, Eights and Deuces
Seat 2: Button folded before Flop
Seat 3: Small blind folded before Flop
Seat 4: Big Blind showed [Kh Kc] and won ($76.25) with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 5: Middel Position 1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Middle Position folded before Flop (didn't bet)

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Re: 99 Thoughts

Osilva — Wed, 27 Feb 2013 04:42:52 -0600

no prob for me. nothing to do or think about this hand.  i dont think any other posible way to act here.

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Re: 99 Thoughts

flakydorf — Wed, 20 Feb 2013 15:32:55 -0600

When I initially reviewed this I missed that the turn was the Jd. Just in terms of combinatronics and the way the board fell I do think Neil got this right.
Thinking more about the villain in this scenario I think a c/c actually has a lot of merit. We are towards the top of our range, our hand is under-repped, and we should very rarely have stronger than nut flush here. From the villains point of view our hand can't really be air by the river since everything got there, so we look capped at a flush, but weighted towards a lot of Ax and Kx.
It comes down to the opponent, but I think this makes the villain willing to bluff with some weakish made hands like Ax, and go for value with the few random Qd or Td type hands that got to the river like this. There's no doubt this is a tough spot though.

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Re: 99 Thoughts

NeilGewirtz — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:15:12 -0600

For starters a c/r on the flop is fine. The board is so draw heavy that even weaker A's in our opponents range will be hard pressed to find a fold, stronger A's may decide to get all in with next to 0 equity, and we can get all in vs draws as a large favorite as well. 
To discuss the river, air is extremely unlikely for villain to have. An overwhelming majority of realisic hand combos have 2pair, trips, a straight, or a flush so checking to induce a bluff is out. A serious consideration does need to be made of the fact that we are not ahead of a value range. Only a few value hands (QdQ AQd) have worse made hands than us, and it isnt certain that they would play like this (QQ likely checks an earlier street in particular), and these hands all bet the river. Jamming is likely -ev since it gets us called by better so often, and if opponent is capable of thinking, what does a Qd beat? The answer is nothing, so we might not be called by worse all that much at all. Checking the river does allow that hand to value bet though, and betting small targets a few flushes, as well as 3A's without a flush hand so I like these two options much better. 
Turn is still debatabe in my mind, as well as wether river is a c/c or c/f (seriously), if you guys would like to continue discussing, i think these dialogues help everyone alot to develop accurate hand reading skills.

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Re: 99 Thoughts

flakydorf — Thu, 14 Feb 2013 02:33:56 -0600

Jimbo,the river made 4 to a flush, so I think betting small to get a crying call from a lone K is pretty bad when the villain will have so many flushes in his range, and will be temped to bluff if he has air. It's only 300 hands but 24 W$SD makes me think he has plenty of air in his range, especially considering 14% 3 bet.Jamming to get calls from broadway hands containing a diamond, or c/c to pick off bluffs seem to be much better options than a small donk bet in my opinion.For the pro's (anybody, curious what they think specifically though):Out of curiousity what would you think if we had something like an AxJd or QTdd hand ourselves? I have some thoughts here but will wait to post for a little while.

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Re: 99 Thoughts

Jimbozgrapes — Wed, 13 Feb 2013 04:06:56 -0600

Yeah I think you played it fine. Just think, if you are ever folding here you are folding everything but the nuts. I know that isn't a huge concideration concerning an unknown, but totally just a cooler. I am not sure what level people are in $100nl, but there is some concideration raising the flop since there are a few draws, either way, on the river I think you both would have played poorly if the money didn't get all in. Not sure if I am a huge fan of the jam on the river, maybe betting something like $20 as a lead to possibly induce or get called by a lone king, I think that might be the most optimal play in a vaccume, thats the only change I would make to the play. Easily just a cooler, you'll get em next time champ .

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Re: 99 Thoughts

snipe7 — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 22:41:43 -0600

check fold river if viillain nitty 3b, but not likely with 14%..cooler?

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99 Thoughts

gp00065 — Tue, 12 Feb 2013 20:40:57 -0600

Any thoughts on how I could have played this different
I have a 300 Hands on this player. Relevant Stats are as follows  VPIP 45, PFR 33, 3b 14.2, Cb 72,  Turncbet 100 WTSD49 W$SD 24 Hero (MP): $336.64 CO: $101.50 BTN: $184.08 SB: $172.12 BB: $100.00 UTG: $107.17 Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is MP with 9c 9h 1 fold, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $8, 3 folds, Hero calls $5 Flop: ($17.50) Kd 9d Ah (2 players) Hero checks, CO bets $9, Hero calls $9 Turn: ($35.50) Jd (2 players) Hero checks, CO bets $20, Hero calls $20 River: ($75.50) Ad (2 players) Hero bets $72.70, CO calls $64.50 all in Final Pot: $204.50 Hero shows 9c 9h (a full house, Nines full of Aces) CO shows Ac Kh (a full house, Aces full of Kings) CO wins $201.70 (Rake: $2.80)

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Re: Hand ranges

Balalajka — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:27:36 -0600

Thank, that was really helpful! : )

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Re: Hand ranges

gp00065 — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 10:43:46 -0600

Being able to put people on hand ranges is crutial if you want to beat small stakes. Neil Gewirtz has a great video on developing reads, another must IMO is Ajackson, Alan's use of stats. That series will show you how you can use your HUD to put people on hand ranges; assuming you have HM or PT,
Two other things I did was:  1. went back through my data base and practiced putting people on hand ranges instead of what cards I think they have.  I use a product call Equilab, but you can also use Poker Stove.  they're both free to see what cards are in that range, then ajust according to the situation.  Example if someone opens 10% in EP, you wouldn't normally put them on the same 10% if they were opening on the button and vise versa.  2. I also went on the sites I play on and watched the level I wanted to play at and practiced putting players on hand ranges. Then I would make notes on hands they opened with and looked at their stats and board texture to see what they could have.  I also make notes based on observations, it's more time consuming, but in the end your ranges will be more accurate
 
Practice is key, I like to practice when I'm not playing as opposed to when I am.  The more practice you get the better you'll become.  If you have trouble with putting a player on a particular range, you can always post to get other people's opinions.   just remember when it comes to putting players on hand ranges, if you cheat and put them on a range so you can be ahead with your hole cards, it's the same as cheating at solitary; you only cheat yourself
Good Luck

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Hand ranges

Balalajka — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:54:13 -0600

Hi guys.. I've been playing a bunch on the microstakes and playing basic ABC-poker is working there, you betting your hands for value and fold when you don't have anything is working to beat those stakes. But now I'm about to start playing a bit on the small stakes instead, and now I really have to start thinking more about hand ranges. I have noticed that I'm having problems doing this, cause I tend to think "what hand can my opponent have in this situation" more than "what range of hands can my opponent have". So my question is, how do you do to start thinking about ranges, and to put people on ranges. I need some tips to get my brain into that "way of thinking". Take care guys!

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Hand ranges

Balalajka — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:54:12 -0600

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Re: Re: Multi tabling

gp00065 — Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:50:22 -0600

Same for me, I heard from some players that are up to 8 but they say after that it's to hard.
If you havent' watched Ajackson, Use of stats (his newest one) it's worth the time to watch, I watched that one and just finished his Dude where's my win rate. After which I changed some of my HUD save some notes I had to make during game play.
 
Anyhow thanks a lot for the imput. I really appreciated it.
Have A Good One
gGp

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