1000nl: herocall/herofold vs Niman? » High Stakes No Limit Discussion

We've played before and he knows that I'm a reg. I've made some thin (/bad) calls vs him, but nothing crazy.

I dont think he can valueshove worse here for value so the only question is will he bluff enough percentage of the time that I can call profitably.

**sorry, its not 1000nl, but i cant edit title

veses this opponent i think its a fold.  But also  virtrually any competent player i think its a fold.  Regs just dont bluff in these spots very often at all - you may want to call if somebody raises river very thin for value - but not many good players will value raise a worse two pair here - not without some previous dynamics anyway

i think even Niman isnt crazy enough to bluff shove there

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NimanKenkre wrote:

Obviously, this board would be an absolutely stupid one to try and bluff an UTG preflop raiser who has shown strength throughout the hand.  It would be equally idiotic to value raise less than A2.  I think that this is a pretty straightforward fold, similar in a sense to some of the hands in my "know when to fold 'em" video.

For the record, I had KK in this hand.

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I think pot odds are too great and we can not fold for that reason. I also think, because nobody ever folds 2 pair here, it becomes a good bluff spot against a very good player who can make tough folds. But only if we have a clean image.
 

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NimanKenkre wrote:

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allwind wrote:

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NimanKenkre wrote:

Obviously, this board would be an absolutely stupid one to try and bluff an UTG preflop raiser who has shown strength throughout the hand.  It would be equally idiotic to value raise less than A2.  I think that this is a pretty straightforward fold, similar in a sense to some of the hands in my "know when to fold 'em" video.

For the record, I had KK in this hand.

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I think pot odds are too great and we can not fold for that reason. I also think, because nobody ever folds 2 pair here, it becomes a good bluff spot against a very good player who can make tough folds. But only if we have a clean image.
 

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It's 212 to win 1097.  This is an asinine spot for me to bluff.  There is no way that you are good enough of the time vs my (or any other decent player) range in that spot to justify that call with pot odds.

Would you call with KQ here?  Because I am never value shoving worse, so your hand is a bluff catcher only -- in a spot where it is really unlikely that I am bluffing.  If you call with A2, you should also be calling with KQ.

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A2 has better blockers so it's not exactly the same, but that's a really marginal factor in this case and doesn't change the right play. You're right of course, just wanted to point it out 'cause it can be important in other situations.