- By:
-
PhilGalfond
- Dated:
- 03 Feb, 2011
- 7 Comments
Hey Guys,
As many of you know, I've been on a pretty big downswing. Actually, it's the biggest of my career. I believe it's currently at about 1.7 (though it started directly after a +400 day, so I'm not sure it fully counts)
I talk a little bit about it during this interview I did the other day: http://www.pokerstatic.com/hot-seat/interview-with-phil-galfond/
I'll expand on it a little bit here.
The majority of my downswing has come at 1500/3000 2-7 TD, a game that I am new to. I know it seems very dumb on the surface, but I have had many reasons to try playing and learning at those stakes (and I'll likely continue to again one day). If you look up HORSE results on HSDB, you'll notice that I'm the 2nd biggest lifetime loser over the hands they've tracked. I'm sure when they come out with 2-7 results, it will look similar.
I think it's extremely important to my career that I learn every game as best I can. At nosebleed stakes, ESPECIALLY live, it's hugely beneficial to be able to play a variety of games. The price I've paid to begin learning these games has been pretty steep, so I'm not entirely sure it will end up being worth it... especially since I'm not really "there" yet in any of the limit games I've tried learning.
The main reason I play so big is to learn. It may be surprising to some of you, but I don't learn the way many other pros do. I don't spend hours combing through HEM looking for leaks. I don't run spend very much time running equities, though I know I should, especially in new games. I just get too bored and distracted when I try to do work like that. I start looking through hands and almost immediately zone out and think about something else.
When I play poker for high stakes, I think about every hand I play as overall strategies, what I would do with a different hand, what my opponent is doing differently and whether I think it's good or bad, or if I can see the merit in either the way he played a specific hand or more general strategies... basically everything possible. And more importantly, I continue to think about those things throughout the day or week. Even if I don't want to think about it, I do, to the point where I often am not listening when people talk to me and I consistently have trouble falling asleep because I can't quiet my mind.
That's how I do the majority of my learning, for better or worse. If I play smaller stakes, I won't care enough to think hard, either at the table or afterwards. So, I guess for now, I'll keep trying to learn and just have to be willing to pay the costs accociated with it. I also should say, that I think I've run pretty poorly. I still have been an underdog, but I don't think I've been as big an underdog as my results suggest. Hopefully I'm right, and the EV I'm paying isn't toooooo expensive.
That said, if I lose a little bit more at 2-7, I'm going to seriously consider taking an extended break from it, or attempting to learn at lower stakes. We'll see.
In other news, I watched this interview of Patrik Antonius today after reading about it on 2p2: http://www.cardplayer.com/cptv/channels/13-poker-news/poker-videos/4575-patrik-antonius-on-high-stakes-action
He talked about how he plays people in games that they specialize in, even when he expects to be at a disadvantage, and how he wishes more people would do that.
I completely agree with him (especially the part about wishing HS PLO games ran more often obviously), and I respect him so much for taking on anyone and everyone in any game. Very few players do it, and fewer do it with as much success as he's had. It's awesome.
That said, I think he's not taking into account that for most players, especially online players, it's a very different situation. Very few people are in a position to do what he does.
When Patrik plays IHJ in LHE... let's assume IHJ is #1 in the world. Patrik probably still is top 5 in the world *(I'm not at all qualified to make that assesment, but it seems likely). Point is, they aren't that far apart. IF IHJ even has an edge in the first place, Patrik has a very legitimate chance to make up the difference quickly, and he won't be losing much EV in the process.
Most online players, because of the nature of online games, and because of the short length of their careers, are specialists. I've actually branched out into other games more than the majority of succesful online players, but I still can't do what Patrik does.
If I sat with a top 3 8game player... I'm maybe top 70 in the world? In specifically HORSE and 2-7, I probably don't even break the top 100. Sitting with him HU, I would start out with a MASSIVE disadvantage (-8k per hour maybe?), and even if I learned fast, maybe I'd work my way up to top 30. I'd still be getting blown out.
I can't think of many succesful players that don't fall in the same category as me. They have a chance against the best in the world in their 1-2 specialties, and would get beaten up in the other games.
If I had a legitimate shot, I'd try it. I've played everyone at NL and PLO hu... not always, but I have often, when I've been rolled. As you can see above, I'm even willing to chunk of 7 figures in a game I just started learning (mostly 6 handed though... rarely HU against someone obviously better than me).
I guess my point is, I agree 100% with Patrik that more players (that have a shot) should give action and try to get better, especially in mixed games. I just don't know who he expects to do it. I can't think of almost anyone qualified.
Hopefully 2-3 years from now, I'll feel good enough to step up and take a shot at him in 8game. For now I guess we can just try to start PLO games together.
Talk to you guys later.
-Phil
Comments
listening (1 year ago)
Hi, I've always been a big fan of yours, and reading this blog I have a couple questions: do you take anything for your adult ADD? Might look into that.
Poker: How long and at what stakes did you play to become the very competent and profitable high stakes player you are at PLO? Do you think Razz, Stud Hi, Omaha8 or any other game will take less effort? Do you know that Razz strategy and thinking can be considered as diametrically opposed to NLHE?
It isn't the amount of money involved really, in terms of where you play to learn. The limits at which you want to learn each game might be considered, instead, in terms of where you will get the most instructive play. Take each one, play around 5/10-10/20 for the same thousands of hands you played other games you excel at. where else. Since you have the money, try some high buy-in tournys for each game. Get an alter and post on a few forums. Don't take the advice too seriously but become familiar with the thinking of the players.
You aren't PA. Thank God, because then we wouldn't have PG. I also may be full of crap - too often true.
Always a big fan, tho'
Lis~
Panda0777 (1 year ago)
Nice blog Phil, wish you all the best, and i really hope i can see you crushing the mixed games soon. I'm a big fan.
See ya.
Panda.
Pokermadman (1 year ago)
I am also having a severe downswing right now. Any advice for dealing with it? Its sucks when you are losing however I find I do improve more when I'm losing so I guess there is a small silver lining to the situation. Any tricks or advice for remaining positive or at least taking advantage of the opportunity to improve? I have the same problem were I cannot turn off my brain and stop thinking about hands. especially when I should be sleeping. Curious how you deal with it.
(1 year ago)
I know you learned PLO simply by jumping in the highest stakes games online 4 (?) years ago. Hypothetically, if you try to do the same in 2011, how many expected-BIs would you drop in the process?
In my experience the intricacies and the variance of TD are comparable to the ones of PLO, and the regs in those games have been playing the game on stars every day for years by now.
But im sure you ll figure those games out! good luck!!
benve79 (1 year ago)
it was me in the above post
(1 year ago)
Great timing with the post. I've been downswinging myself (though in a game I should be good at :P) and been thinking about various approaches to improving. I generally don't deny anybody action really, but it doesn't mean I won't quit them if I feel I'm not playing well or won't be able to benefit from taking a loss. I really like your way of approaching the game and I think at the end of the day one needs to put in the hours at the tables to get better. I find that a lot of the top players have this income that they put in a lot more hours than I have over my career and have gotten a lot further in process. Luckily I'm in a position where I'm not living on a month to month basis and if worse comes to worse I can allways move down and live off of smaller stakes. I know from speaking to a lot of people that they don't have the risk tolerance to do what I do let alone do what you do (the crazy high stakes shots that you took early in your career). I hear people saying things like you need 100 buy-ins to play 5/10 and tell them I think that's ludacris. People are too narrow-minded. Before I go off into some random ramble, one thing I would like to add is that PA also probably has a ton more gamble than most poker players.
jressle (1 year ago)
stop blogging sooo much
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